Sole, (Tim Holland) is a prolific American rapper, and a co-founder of the indie hip hop record label Anticon. Sole is in town tonight with label mate, Jel, and Canadian’s Factor and Lee Reed. Check out the show details, here.
I was lucky enough to have a chat with Tim recently to learn more about his approach to music, activism, and a lot more. While, a lot of socially conscious rap tends to lean towards the preachy and boring side, Sole has managed to remain exciting throughout his long career. It is a challenge to combine intelligent, fact based lyrics, with fun beats and to turn that into a song that people will actually want to listen to. More than once. That’s Sole – he is funny, intelligent, and really nice. Personally, I am interested in environmental work, food, podcasts, and music – this interview was a real treat and a definite high point for Cut From Steel.
Q – When was the last time you toured in Canada? How do you like it?
I love playing in Canada, it’s always been great to me. 100% of the time. It feels like Canada has a European type of respect for art and people seem to be open to weird shit. Everyone seems psyched to see live music. Last time I played Canada was for a Juggalo show in British Columbia and it was awful! Saskatoon is always wild. And,
I have a particular fondness for the London / Guelph area. The hip hop scene there is excellent and I’ve got a close affinity to artists like Noah23, Thesis, also Factor and Def3 (out West).
Q- With the release of White Noise, you’ve been involved with (I believe) 6 releases in the last 2 years. When did you figure out how to live without sleeping. How did you pull this off?
Well, let’s put it this way, I still have time to watch entire shows on Netflix, play video games, read, do all the activist shit I’m involved in. I still sleep 5-8 hours a day, and my wife and I have a healthy love life. I guess I tend to work fast. I mean, music is not rocket science. I edit what I do, and I think that the first idea is often the best idea. I can write a song in 40 mins, and then adapt it and work with it while recording. I’m sure a lot of it has to do with being DIY and just doing shit myself.
Also, I don’t have a label manager or anything telling me when to release things to not ‘flood the market’. I don’t have to record things and then sit on my hands for a year waiting for the right time to release it.
Q – Do you write all the time, or do you write in focused efforts for each release?
I don’t write all the time. I’m not a poet at a coffee shop. I just write when I’m inspired from debates with friends or reading philosophical texts, following my obsessions. Different things that I’m exposed to tend to inspire me.
Q – At what age did you realize everything was fucked up? What would the young rebel you think… of the you of today?
When I was like 12, or 13 I read the autobiography of Malcolm X and that started changing my view of things. I got into listening to Public Enemy around that time, too. After that as I got a bit older I got into learning a lot about the Black Panthers, and so I developed a voice for social critique. I guess it all intensified for me after September 11th. I realized that it wasn’t just enough to say ‘everything is fucked up’ – and leave it at that. I was going down a cynical path for a long time, and I guess I still am somewhat.
But, I think it is important to go down swinging and trying to make things better. There are practical things we can all do to make life better. Don’t just hide in your room smoking weed and thinking about how it is all shit and it is all pointless. There is so much you can do – and it isn’t always chaining yourself up to walls and fences.
I never bought into that late 90’s political rap of like Talib Kweli and Mos Def. It’s tacky to me – a lot of radical rap is tacky, actually. I told myself I had to research, read Zim, Chomsky, read everything. I put myself through five years of ‘library college’ just trying to learn everything. It was, and is, important to me to be informed about the issues I rap about. As for what would 17 year old me think of me today? He’d probably say “that motherfucker is crazy… dope beats.. funny.. I want to know more..”.
Q – You’re a big champion of owning your own product and labour. How has this independence and autonomy affected your creative process… or your personal life?
I used to have a high paying computer job, and I just did music on the weekends. At some point I got a new boss, this ex-marine prick. I hated him, and I didn’t want to be micromanaged by some guy who knew nothing about what I did – so I quit. “Fuck this dude”. I saved up what money I had and I toured my music. I lived very cheaply – there are always ways to make the DIY thing work. I was driving a cab at some point just to pay my bills – – then eventually I sued the label and took back all of my masters. That freed me up – gave me a personal freedom to do whatever I wanted.
Around that point, the Occupy movement took off and I took 8 months out of my life and dedicated it to that. Because I had my distribution set up through iTunes and other venues, it gave me security and the safety net of that income trickling in. How has it affected my personal life? Well, because I own my stuff now and I control everything I am now able to live in a nice house downtown! It also enabled me to take a proper vacation with my girl, my first ever real vacation. It isn’t always a dream life, the DIY thing, there are challenges and I am constantly on my toes. But, I’m a happy person and I can do what I want most of the time. I set my own deadlines and I’m always pushing myself to grow and get better. It is important to me to build a stable infrastructure and to live like an adult.
Q – I’ve read that you’re a vegan, and an avid gardner. Can you tell us a bit about your views on food… and food sovereignty?
Food is one of my favourite things. When I come back from tour I always remember the few memorable shows and ALL of the great food and the restaurants I tried! I became a vegetarian when I was 11 years old because I really loved animals and I didn’t want to eat them. When I lived in Arizona it was hard to be a Vegan at the start – the products just weren’t available, so I had to learn how to make everything. What’s Vegan cheese? I had to figure out how to make it. Because of this, I’ve become a really good cook. I can make everything! I know how to eat well no matter what, no matter how poor I’ve been – I’ve eaten like a king. Once I moved to Denver and I got a house with a yard, I planted a massive garden. We grow everything – food, teas, everything! As a self-employed person it is important to get outside and get away from the computer, and working on my garden has been the perfect escape. Gardening is also an important skill that will always come in handy. I pay myself with food. If I work on my garden a few hours a day – that amounts to like $50 worth of food I’ll be able to harvest. I’m really into that. We set up a guerilla garden in an abandoned lot, and it was eventually taken over and maintained by neighbours. That was very cool. It is good to know that if society ever blew up and I had to provide for myself –I’d be able to feed myself really well. I might have to get goats and chickens for milk and eggs or something. Protein is harder to come by for Vegans.
Would you ever consider eating the synthetically grown meat that’s been developing n labs recently?
No. I wouldn’t eat it but I don’t have a problem with it. Look, I’m not a luddite. We can’t fix everything with technology – but I do believe that we can fix some of the things with technology, and that lab grown meat may be a good thing.
Q – Can you tell us a bit about the flood in Colorado, and what’s going on there?
The only positive thing I cay say is that I got to spend a few uninterrupted days with my wife because she was off work during the flooding. Aside from that, it has been really terrible. The facts are still coming out, but the media covers so much of it up so by the time it reaches the news everything is under reported and skewed. Anti-Fracking, and Anti-Pipeline activists have been sharing photos and information of thousands of fracking wells underwater and all of the damage that’s been done. Towns like Golden, and Cold Creek Canyon don’t even make it to the news. The highways have been swept away and it is taking people like 4 hours to get to work, when it used to take 20 mins. Gas lines have been swept away so people don’t have hot water, they can’t cook, their entire lives have been turned upside down. Winter is coming and the people have been told it will take at least 2 months for highways, and gas lines to be repaired.
Basically everything is much much worse than it seems on the news. There is a decommissioned power plant that is storing tones of plutonium and it was flooded. Thousands of liters of oil are leaking into the water that is being carried out towards the coast and will have horrifying consequences for millions of people. These companies, the fracking industry, do not have to disclose what chemicals they are using so nobody knows what exactly has leaked – since the chemicals can’t be indentified and can’t be tested. Man, there are cities under Marshall law – it’s like we’ve learned nothing since Katrina. The authorities seem to be concerned with “safety” – people have to prove they live where they live, some towns only allow you to come in and out once a day. There is E-Coli in the tap water like it’s fucking Baghdad. I moved to Denver because the C.I.A. and other organizations use it as a ‘fallback point’, so I thought “if it’s good enough for the C.I.A, it is good enough for me”. The elevation is high and in disaster situations it is ideally located. It seemed the safest place to live. Now, I’m realizing ‘Oh shit, nowhere is safe’.
The Occupy movement is over – but the community it built is critical. This flood has galvanized anarchists, and environmental activist communities and now everyone is working together. The Denver community, lead by anarchists, and environmental activists are working to help people. The people involved in these groups have dropped everything to help during this disaster. It is a moment of revolutionary action.
Q – You started a radical podcast earlier this year… “SoleCast” What’s that experience been like for you?
It has been fucking awesome. I used to do some work for Denver Open Media, they do production for shows like Democracy Now there. At some point I was offered a talk show, but I didn’t want to be on camera. So, I turned it down but kept thinking about the idea. I thought a lot about a philosophy talk show. Could I do something like that? I toyed with the format, and eventually I realized that a podcast is the perfect medium for what I wanted. I could talk about radical philosophy, anarchist, Marxist ideas. I can interview academics and ask them about things I really want to know about. Basically, this is first and foremost for me. Why would I put out something I don’t like? I put a lot of energy and time into this podcast. I do a lot of research before each interview. I mean, I probably won’t be a rapper forever, and I figured nobody else is doing this right now. It’s something I’m really interested in and I want to see where it goes, I want to take this as far as I can.
Q – What’s your approach to interviews? You are the person who is being interviewed for most of the time – – so how has that experience shaped you as the interview-er?
I hate the stupid fucking questions you get from music ‘journalists’ sometimes. Stuff like “what’s the first CD you ever bought”… who cares! You don’t give a shit. Is this all you care about? Really? Why are you even a music journalist? There is a lot to talk about, and most music blogs ask the dumbest shit. Actually, lately I’ve been getting the most interviews from leftist / activist blogs. Those people seem to be the ones asking cool questions, and they are genuinely interested in me. I had a publicist before who was selling me to blogs and to media trying to get me interviews. I used to get 10 standard boring questions sent to me again and again. Now – people who are interested in me – approach me. I like being challenged, it makes me learn and grow. For example, a little while ago I was interviewed by the Canadian animal rights blog, Animal Voices, and they asked me what I thought about calling cops ‘pigs’. I never really thought about that before. They were saying how pigs are the most intelligent, yet most oppressed of the animals. And cops are constantly oppressing people, so isn’t it an insult to the pig when we call cops pigs? Oh, shit! I thought, ‘you’re right’, I never thought of it that way before. I mean, we care so much about safe spaces, and we police language for things like homophobia and patriarchy and try to keep everything fair and right. Yet – what kind of revolution can be have that doesn’t include 99% of earthy beings?
As an interview-er I try not to ask any fluff questions. I want to know what people think, and I try not to ask basic shit. I want to get things that people care about and things the world actually needs. I spend weeks watching lectures and reading about topics before each podcast.
Q – What’s your live show like? What can people expect?
I’ve changed my live routine a lot. I realized that ‘laptop karaoke’ just wasn’t very interesting – a show needs more. My new live aesthetic is a bit more noisy, and I work a lot with my 404 sampler. I tend to mix ambient tones, melodies. I’m not Jel, but I’m getting better. I’m really interested in doing more and learning the limits of my sampler. Live hip hop tends to be a guy with a track on a laptop –and a mic. It’s boring to watch and nobody gives a shit. I know this might offend a lot of my friends and fellow rappers, but it is the truth. People pay money to come out to see us, and they need a show. I think that this is why indie hip hop isn’t very popular. People get lazy and they aren’t pushing their craft. Musicians in other genres, learn everything about their instruments and grow – hip hop needs to do the same.
Thanks, Tim!
Biljana
@CutFromSteel